Walton asked that I explain the process of tax exemption in Texas for religious bodies, including the FLDS.
First, religious organizations, including the FLDS, are generally entitled to a property tax exemption for the following:
- Places of worship. Note that the place of worship must be actively used for religious services. It is unclear whether the Temple, which has been described as being “desecrated” and is no longer being used for religious services would meet that requirement unless the FLDS can show that it is being rededicated and will be used for religious services in the near future.
- The residence of persons whose principal occupation is clergy for the religion. This would presumably include the residence of Merril Jessop, but if it is shown that he has another principal occupation, the exemption would not be available. No more than 1 acre per residence can be so designated.
- Property used as a church school. Home schooling does not meet this requirement.
- A provision for the transfer of the property in the event of the dissolution of the church exists that transfers the property to the State, the United States, or to a similiar religious or charitable organizaton (under Sec. 501(c)(3), U.S. Code).
If the FLDS are not going to use the Temple for religious services, the exemption on that property is not available. If they lie on the application and state that it is being used for religious purposes when it is not, they could be charged with Tampering with a Governmental Record.
Although all males over the age of 13 are considered members of the “priesthood,” they are not entitled to the exemption unless their principal occupation is that of clergy. Those that have jobs, trades, or other occupations may not receive the exemption.
Since the proprty is only by a corporate entity, the residents are not entitled to homestead exemptions, any more than an apartment resident would be.
Unless they obtain 50% of their revenue from farming (1-d), they cannot obtain an agricultural exemption. They may be eligible for a 1-d-1 exemption, although I doubt it, since the land must have been used for agricultural purposes for 5 of the preceeding 7 years. It also won’t help with the taxes on the buildings, since it only applies to the land.
Unlike what many believe (that would be you, Bill), exemptions are probably not going to help the FLDS much.
When you have some bean-counting tax assesor that says the temple is worth $9 million, and that can be exempt from property taxes- that is a big help.
Does the ORDAINED minister have to be able to perform legal marriages?
Warren or his Bishops do not perform legal marriages.
WC,
It can be exempt – so long as they are using it for religious services.
Anon 1:59,
There is no requirement that the clergy be ordained nor that they be able to perform specific sacraments, such as marriage. For that matter, Warren and his Bishops could legally perform marriages in Texas, so long as they followed the law on age, licenses, etc. If it is Merril’s principal occupation, his residence is entitled to a tax exemption, regardless of the status of the Temple.
The dissolution requirement would still apply however.
Thank you TxBluesMan.
If they were to get the exemption and use the Temple for Religious services would the General Public be allowed to attend service?
Would Ruth and Pliggy be allowed to attend service?
Would the fire marshal be allowed access to do inspections?
We’ve all seen Edson Jessop inside a building making toys to sell on their web site. Would that be considered a business?
Would the Dairy Farm (?) be considered a business or agriculture?
Would all the real fruits and vegetables by the women and children be considered a garden? or a good will donation for those in Short Creek?
Would the many vehicles driven by all those in the Priesthood be considered Religious vehicles or would they be considered farm vehicles?
Is there a time line in which they can file for this exemption and aren’t they long past due?
Sorry about the so many questions but I had them so I thought I’d ask them.
Perhaps its the dissolusionment clause that scares them. Maybe they are testing the waters hoping to get it without actually following any of those pesky rules – y’know, like they are fond of doing???!!!
– Stamp
Its rather comical when they take turns following Warrens then Bile Mudpuppy’s advice.
None of it has worked for them, see, prison awaits, guess they wont be paying income tax while they spend years cruizin prison bars!
Just lookin at the bright side!
– Stamp
And what if they manage to substantially reduce their tax bill, will that really piss you guys off!?
Walton, Whether pliggy is able to attend service or not is none of your business. I bet he doesn’t appreciate you speaking for him like that.
—Duane
Duane,
Why would it upset us?
They are just as entitled to the exemption as anyone else, so long as they follow the same rules for exemption that everyone else has to follow.
I also didn’t take Walton’s question as speaking for Pliggy. It seemed to me that he was merely asking who could attend, and if he didn’t know, it would not be inappropriate to ask.
I didn’t speak for Pliggy. I asked about Pliggy.
I am not Catholic but from what I understand if Catholics get divorced they can still go to Church but they can’t get communion.
I am not LDS but I am able to attend some of their services.
I am not Lutheran and I am able to attend their services.
I really like Ruth. From what I’ve read of Pliggys posts he still believes in his Religion.
Pliggy and I have our differences. But when I read about the Sons of Perdition(the Lost Boys Point of View) I felt bad for Pliggy if that is how he felt.
I think Pliggy is ok with me Duane. Thanks for your concern.
Duane,
Sorry to disappoint Ya.
Schleicher County has been around for over 100 years without the flds and it will continue after YFZ.
The property taxes they are providing now is just cream.
Duane,
Sorry to disappoint Ya.
Schleicher County has been around for over 100 years without the flds and it will continue after YFZ.
The property taxes they are providing now is just cream.
i thought that they hadn’t filed any sort of tax exemption status. did i miss something? has that changed?
Years ago Warren mandated all Church services and meetings end.
Calamity city has a nice, large church – but it has stood vacant for years.
I havent seen any such church at YFZ either.
LDS /FLDS Temples arent for Church services people attend weekly.
Even in the LDS faith you cant get married “In the Temple” without your “Temple Recommend” card – tithe payer etc etc.
I dont know how Warren ran it because I’m sure it changed day to day and now he is in prison so nobody is going in that Temple for any service or sacrament until he is out.
And that bed – well the sheets will stay clean a long long time.
Worthy of exemption? Its up to Texas, but they may have other plans out there now that the gig is up on the whole child abusing culture.
– Stamp
The fact they didnt file for it in the first place is evidence of their lying manipulative ways.
Now that they are looking at a half million + annual tax bill they are choking on their own lies.
Hmmm how do we get out of this fix, Ollie?
- Stamp
Duane said:
“I bet he doesn’t appreciate you speaking for him like that.”
Duane, look in the mirror next time you say that.
Warren Jeffs dictation as recently as March 2008, when he started Flds having sacrements again, he made it very clear, the sacrements be given in each families home, by the bishop of each compound.
Including YFZ. The only ones appointed to be able to enter the temple in march 2008, were the women he named, to clean, Naomi his scribe and one other woman.
They didn’t have temple services!
Ollie?
Oliver and Hardy, The Three Stooges, the Adams family – all rolled up in the FLDS Family…
:p
Guess who “Lurch” is?
“The fact they didnt file for it in the first place is evidence of their lying manipulative ways.”
Stamp-Rabble Rouser Extradinaire , I suspect they didn’t apply for breaks in the first place because they didn’t want to be seen as cheapskates who didn’t pay their fair share.
Well if their temple is desecrated and can’t be reconsecrated, I suppose they should just dismantle it and rebuild another.
–Duane
In every single way, the Ranch meets all the same tax exemptions the local Monastery gets.
What’s good for the Goose is good for the Gander, and it’ll be up to the local good old boys to explain it to the Feds.
Your record on predicting what the Courts would do is pretty shakey TBM, and with the Ranch now listening to some mighty savvy NY Tax Accountants, Eldorado will be lucky to end up with a pot to drop the cream in when they get through with them.
Let’s not forget Judge whathisname and what he was going to do with Theresa Steed’s baby!
Please note that I don’t normally respond on your blog, but you DID address me personally, so That makes me entilted to a response. But, it’s your blog, so feel free not to post it.
Bill,
Actually, I’ve been running about 67-75% correct in my assessments of what would happen.
Of course, since you have twisted everything else (tanks, attack helicopters, etc) in to untruthful statements, why would we expect this to be any different.
Also Bill, although you won’t post opposing views on your blog (or at least mine), you have never been prevented from posting here…
duane
“Stamp-Rabble Rouser Extradinaire , I suspect they didn’t apply for breaks in the first place because they didn’t want to be seen as cheapskates who didn’t pay their fair share. “
<> You dont remember? It was supposed to be a hunting ranch? You dont remember that big fat lie?
And no they didnt lie so they wouldnt be considered cheapskates!<>“Well if their temple is desecrated and can’t be reconsecrated, I suppose they should just dismantle it and rebuild another.”
<>Let em have at it, that would make for a nice chinese fire drill! Hope they get a bigger sex alter next time though, y’know, one that can hold all his wives at once?
But I presume Warren wont be out of prison anytime soon to dedicate it or use HIS Groundskeeper bed!<>
– Stamp
TBM,
I have no problem with posting your opposing views, what I won’t post is
Gestapo propaganda like “Broken bones”, “Grooming boys to be pedophiles”,”31 pregnant teenagers”,
or any of the other debunked dreck they want out there.
“Pedophilia is not a religion”is a handy little slogan, but then again
“Tyranny is not a Democracy”
is a lesson the goons need to learn before there’s more of us felons out there than there are the “Law abiders”.
Jefferson had a little something to say about governments and tyranny and duty as I recall.
Feel free to post, but drooling over beds in temples and children’s diaries will not be posted.
Neither will references to Natalie’s site that she’s supplying all the “Evidence” given to her by John Hanna, that site will see her disbarred and Johnnie one of your hated felons.
It’s possible for the Temple to be used for religious purposes such as classes and training but have been defiled for their most sacred religious purposes.
There is no requirement for a church to be open to the public. For example, I bet if I sent two openly gay men into a Texas church to hug and kiss – y’all would appreciate the ability to toss people out.
Bill said:
<>what I won’t post is Gestapo propaganda like “Broken bones”, “Grooming boys to be pedophiles”,”31 pregnant teenagers”, or any of the other debunked dreck they want out there.<>In other words, if you don’t agree with what the poster states, you won’t post it. I attempted several times to post on your blog with factual responses to various allegations and propaganda that you and the FLDS put out there – and I can’t recall a single post being accepted.
<>Jefferson had a little something to say about governments and tyranny and duty as I recall.<>Jefferson also said that “It is time enough for the rightful purposes of civil government, for its officers to interfere [in the propagation of religious teachings] when principles break out into overt acts against peace and good order.” He, on numerous occasions stated that all religions had to obey the law, that the government could not regulate beliefs but could regulate actions.
I don’t post at your place because you censor your critics.
Governments can and do regulate actions. It cannot infringe on basic rights and freedoms of citizens. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Etc., etc.
WC said…
Governments can and do regulate actions. It cannot infringe on basic rights and freedoms of citizens. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Etc., etc.
===============
Please – you arent saying that prosecuting those who are marrying preteens – sexual assault in Texas – is an infringement of your rights to “Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness” now, are you?
– Stamp
But good to see you following Bile Madpacket around like the good puppy dog that you are!
Why are TBM still attacking us who called what appears to be a tank a tank? Even Angie Voss at the 14 day hearing called it a tank during sworn testimony.
Stamp,
You are trying to act like you respect the law and that lawbreakers need to be brought to justice. The truth and reality is that you hide behind and use the law to throw stones at people and hurt them, along with many others. Don’t act like you really care about those pre-teens that are being married in the FLDS, because you don’t- it’s obvious.
What have you got against Bill M.? He offend you, call you a name, or something?
Anon 5:03 said:
<>Why are TBM still attacking us who called what appears to be a tank a tank?<>Maybe because it wasn’t a tank, never was a tank, never will be a tank, and despite being informed of what it was, you continue to call it a tank.
This is not a < HREF="http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:USAF_M113_APC_at_Camp_Bucca,_Iraq.jpg" REL="nofollow">tank<>.
This is a < HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:M1-A1_Abrams_1.jpg" REL="nofollow">tank<>.
See the difference? The not a tank is boxy and did not mount any weapons. It is made out of 5083 aluminum armor, which a .50 caliber rifle will penetrate. The actual tank has a turret (that the thing on top, that rotates around) and has a high velocity cannon on it, even if no machine guns are mounted. It has Chobham armor, a high tech protective shield that will not only stop a .50 caliber round, it will defeat a 125mm main gun round, which is about a 5 inch round (10 times the size of of the .50 cal that will penetrate the not a tank).
You’ve been given the proper identification and terminology, but you continue to mis-characterize it as a tank. That tells me that those that do so don’t care about the truth.
Blues,
There you go again, confusing THEM WITH FACTS.
SuzieQ
WC
“
What have you got against Bill M.? He offend you, call you a name, or something?”
=============
He calls everybody names, you know that, you camp out with him!
His ilk is offensive to me, yes, for many reasons. Because he had failed relations with CPS he thinks they are all evil.
Well, he is using the FLDS as a tool to get back at his imaginary enemy. Texas CPS has done him no harm and he has no right to be party to any lawsuit in Texas.
Texas CPS had good reason to rescue children, has that gone perfect, no, but we have 12 men going to trial for various child sex crimes and other crimes related to polygamy.
So sit back, think of England, and watch these guys go to prison!
- Stamp
When the Supreme Court of Texas says that it was wrong to remove all the children; then you have CPS say they would do it all over again the same way- that is as real an enemy as it gets. There is nothing left to imagination.
I know you’re giddy about all these indictments, for whatever reason. But don’t get your party started yet, there is still wrangling to go.
WC,
That’s not what SCOT said. What their (SCOT) decision said was that the 3COA did not abuse their discretion when they (3COA) issued the <>mandamus<> to Judge Walther.
TBM,
In laymans terms, they should not have removed the children- that’s why they were all sent back. What part of that don’t you understand?
WC
What they should do is plead guilty and beg a lighter sentence – the evidence is overwhelming.
But as unrepentant as they are, yeah they will play the game to the end and get their just rewards.
Dont pity them their decades in prison though, they will be well earned.
– Stamp
WC said…
Stamp,
You are trying to act like you respect the law and that lawbreakers need to be brought to justice. The truth and reality is that you hide behind and use the law to throw stones at people and hurt them, along with many others. Don’t act like you really care about those pre-teens that are being married in the FLDS, because you don’t- it’s obvious.
====================
Whats obvious is 12 men going to prison WC, aint ya glad you aint one of them..?
TBM,
Any word on how the “Texas Heritage Trust” is going to help them with an exemption?
Curious to see who put this in motion. I had read they were considering putting it into trust earlier, but issues such as FBI TOP TEN wanted posters got in the way.
– Stamp
I would have to see the trust document to see if it would help them.
Blues,
Do you have an email address?
txbluesman@live.com
Well, the trust document is a <>Cestui Que<> trust, which is sometimes looked at with skepticism by the courts, due to the irrevocable nature of the transfer of property to the trustee.
Assuming that the grantor states that he or she made the transfer with full knowledge and in his own will, there is nothing inherently wrong with it that I can see (with the proviso that I am not a trust law type).
It also has a dissolution clause, which is required for a religious exemption.
Whether it would stand up to a legal challenge is another matter.
As a side issue, the trust seeks to claim that all property is for religious purposes, which won’t fly under Texas law. Those limitations in the original post still apply.
Wonder how this should flesh out since Warren may have been involved in RICO violations, robbing peter to buy Yearn for Zippers and make a new trust exing the original tithing class.
– Stamp
Ya gotta love all the scripture interspersed into the trust language, as if they needed excuses for actions and so they cherry picked scriptures to match their whacky acts.
Its kind of like a legal dictation by Warren:
“You will give your mind body and soul, and your home depot repairs, go to page 85 in the DC verse 2, and dont you forget it!
– Stamp
PS its by invite only, guess Grumpy Bill wont be livin there!
Can they get an reduction or exemption as a place of historical interest?
Would the religious exemption apply if the temple were deeded to the FLDS church, even if it only maintained the Temple in pristine ready condition for meetings?
Could they incorporate as a town/village and get exemptions for community meeting halls?
I’m thinking with a tax bill of their size they ought to be able to find ways of reducing it 60-75% with the right lawyer(s) and descriptions and owners. If I’m not wrong the Temple is at least 25% of the bill.
Of course what should be of bigger concern is how do they think they can keep that place running?
The <>“Texan Heritic Trust”<>doesnt have any revenue source, besdide Creekers – many of whom we see either crippled by the construction industry or just plain quiting.
The trust is written rediculously corny, you have to be “invited” and donate your body mind and soul.
A crazier Cult sheet I dont think I’ve read.
Oh – they are supposed to be “ONE” but, then, 600 miles away and allowed in by “invite” only?
Thats some strong Koolaide they sereve those folks!
– Stamp
Anonymous said…
Can they get an reduction or exemption as a place of historical interest?
================
Oh, I’m sure once this all fleshes out, and the State eventually takes it over the State will get exempted.
- Stamp